How to End a Sales Call 2 Questions That Stop Prospects From Ghosting You
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Brooke Greening: One of the easiest ways to lose momentum in a sales conversation is to end the call hoping everyone knows what happens next.
But hope is not a strategy, and it's definitely not a process. Before every sales conversation ends, there are two questions that I want you to have answered. And if you can answer both of these, you're going to eliminate a lot of confusion, ghosting, and that awkward follow-up
So if the next step doesn't have an action and a timeline, it is not a next step. We're being gracious, we're being kind, but we are not being clear in the next step.
I have never had anyone tell me or any of my clients, "Oh, I don't really like the intentionality.
I don't like how clear that is."
You need to know why they're stuck rather than pretending that we're moving forward. That is where a lot of sales, this sounds very dramatic, but that- that's where they die. Like, everybody's thinking, "Okay, yep, they're good. We're moving forward." And then they get frustrated, and then they say, "Okay, it's the economy," or then they say, "Our competitor is doing this."
so many times, if we would just give people enough space and give them a clear enough question that they can answer honestly, you would be surprised how fast that would either turn things around and the sale would move forward faster, or you would actually start to understand they're saying no.
Scott Greening: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of _Sippin' Matcha and Helping You Make More Sales_. I'm Scott, your host, and in just a moment, we'll bring in Brooke, our resident sales expert, who in about the time that it takes you to drink and enjoy your matcha or coffee, gives us some great sales advice for our sales conversations.
Because if you have to talk to people to make sales, how well you lead those conversations is going to make or break your revenue. And Brooke, as, as we talk today, we often, you know, relate things to our real lives, and we, we're dealing with junior high boy soccer season.
Brooke Greening: Oh, my word.
Scott Greening: And most specifically- Not just junior
yeah, the, the uniforms, the socks, the smells, the, the joys. The
Brooke Greening: underwear.
Scott Greening: Yes.
Brooke Greening: Yes. So I am struggling because we not only have soccer going on, but we have... So our son, he is in seventh grade, and he has to have uniforms for school He has to have gym uniforms on gym day, and he has to have his soccer uniforms on his soccer days, and then practice clothes on all of the days in between.
Not to mention he has to remember when to bring his trombone to school, which he has not yet done, and we are on week three. But he, no matter what I do, I really try to set him up for success. I do the laundry. I have him make sure that he has things set out, and no matter what we do, he cannot organize it.
He is not clear on his next steps, and when I ask if he's packed his bag the night before, every morning it's like herding drunk cats. I can't get him to get the stuff that he needs, and we've got Bizzy, who's five, and she has uniforms that she has to do. It is a hot mess, and it sets me off a little bit in the mornings-
and I get a little frustrated.
Scott Greening: Yes. So we may need to get you some extra matcha to get you calmed down a little bit. But it does relate to our topic of k- of next steps because you are exceedingly clear with him, and yet he ... And he even affirms that he knows what he's supposed to do and when he's supposed to do it.
And yet, here we are, a little torqued off on a regular basis about the uniform situation. Thankfully, most of us- Yes ... I would assume, are not selling, don't have as our primary customer junior high boys. So we can- Oh, no.
Brooke Greening: I could never do it.
Scott Greening: We can be thankful for that. But we are talking about next steps and having, making sure that we explain the next steps.
It's the last part of our service framework. So we've talked about why next steps are so important, and then we talked about some common accidental ways that we make next steps more difficult or confusing. Now we're talking about, like, how to do this or the implementation, how we know we've done this well.
And you've got- For our junior high minds-
Brooke Greening: Surprise
Scott Greening: ... a pretty simple framework, I know you love your frameworks, on how to do this.
Brooke Greening: I do. Yes, it's just two questions. That is it. And they are simple enough to remember after every single sales conversation, and they are going to tell you immediately if you've done this well or not.
Scott Greening: Yeah, I know it's helpful for me keeping these things in mind because no matter how I might get off track or lose my way as I try to work through the, the service sales framework, I know I'm, I'm heading towards getting an answer for these two questions. And so if I, if I get to these at the end, I know I've at least done a pretty big part of it fairly well.
And so, uh, let's, let's start talking about it. What's the first question that we need an answer to?
Brooke Greening: Okay. So the first question, and we need answers to both of these before the conversation ends. If you don't have them before the conversation ends, that's when you're gonna get stuck in, like, follow-up land, or it's weird, or they're ghosting you, or any of those other things that happen that we don't want to take place during a sales conversation.
So the very first question is: Does my potential client know exactly what they need to do next to move forward with me? Do they know what they need to do next to move forward with me? And this is not vague, this is not eventually, this is do they know, date and time. That is how clear we need to be.
Scott Greening: Yeah, and I think it's tempting to go through the service framework we feel like we're pretty clear on what we're talking about, and then to kind of back off at the end and just say, "Well, I'll let you think about it."
Or people will say, "Well, you've..." The potential client might say something like, "Well, you've given me a lot to think about. This sounds good." But those things don't count for what you're talking about, right?
Brooke Greening: No. And a lot of times, and we'll talk about this in a little bit, but actually when people say, "Oh, that's good," or, "I need to think about it," we think we're moving forward, but that's not, that is not what is happening.
And so that's not a good answer. Either is, "I'm gonna send something over." That is not clear. "Let's touch base sometime next week." That is not clear, because they need to know what they need to do next. And if you say, "I'm gonna send something over," what is their responsibility? Just, like, hang out by the computer all day and see if it's gonna happen?
Like, that's- Yeah ... not going to take place. It has to be so clear they know what they're going to do. That's the first one.
So what I'm, if I'm hearing you correctly, Brooke, uh, the, the difference is, like, instead of sort of vague intentions that maybe both sides feels good about and maybe in both minds it's more than just being polite, but that's not quite getting there, right?
Correct. So if the next step doesn't have an action and a timeline, it is not a next step. We're being gracious, we're being kind, but we are not being clear in the next step.
Scott Greening: All right, so we need action and timeline. What does this sound like when you're actually on a call?
Brooke Greening: Yeah. So if you're talking to a client and they're saying, "Hey, this sounds good.
I need to talk with my business partner, and we know that's gonna happen by Wednesday evening," this would be a way to do that, to say, "Okay. So I'm gonna send the proposal to you by Tuesday afternoon. That's gonna give you guys time to be able to review it with your business partner, so then let's meet on Thursday at 2:00.
That way we can answer questions about it and see if it makes sense for us to be able to move forward or not."
Scott Greening: Good. And so then everybody's on board. We don't have to guess. We know there's specific steps. You're sending a proposal. They're going to talk about it with their business partner, and then most importantly, like, you're gonna get back together at a specific time, Thursday- Yes
at 2:00 t- to talk about it. And this, this isn't pressure. This is just leading the process, leading the decision and helping them take the next steps that they need.
Brooke Greening: Yes, because what happens is... 'Cause we've all had this. We have all had someone say, "Okay, yeah, this sounds great. Send me a proposal.
I need to talk to my business partner." Like, we've heard all of those things, but if it's not that clear, what happens is we're like, "Okay, I'll send you a proposal next week, and then you can give me a call or I can call you next week and see if you have questions." What usually happens is, if we remember, we call them and we say, "Hey, did you get the proposal?
I wanted to see if you had any questions." And nine out of 10 times they say, "Yep, I got it, and no questions." And now we're completely stuck, 'cause we can't call them again. We can't do any of those things, and that's where this allows there to be that intentionality. I get it. You've got a business partner.
You wanna be able to talk about it with them. Great. I'm sending it to you by Tuesday afternoon. That gives you time to be able to talk about it with your business partner by Wednesday evening, so then on Thursday we can meet at 2:00 and have a real conversation. I have never had anyone tell me or any of my clients, "Oh, I don't really like the intentionality.
I don't like how clear that is." I have had so many people tell me and my clients, "Oh, yeah. That sounds like a good plan. That's something we can do," or, "No, we can't," and we're gonna talk about that in a minute. But we shoot ourselves in the foot so many times because we're just not giving them that simple, clear direction.
Scott Greening: So what's, that's the, the first question, does my potential client know exactly what they need to do to move forward with me? Then the, the second-
Brooke Greening: Mm-hmm
Scott Greening: ... question is what?
Brooke Greening: The second question helps you guys. It helps you not to be wondering what in the world is going on, because the second question is, do I know if they're going to do it?
If so, when? And if not, why? When you have that answer, it makes all the difference in the world, but no one is really trying to find that answer. We just want to try to be kind and gracious and kind of move things forward, and we think we're giving them clear direction. But if you can't get off the phone knowing exactly, yeah, they're gonna do it or they're not going to do it and this is the reason why, you're gonna be stuck, and you're not gonna be able to move it forward at all or give them any other resources to be able to help them at that point.
Scott Greening: All right. So we're basically asking, do I know if they're gonna do the thing, right? So if so- Yeah. Yeah ... when are they gonna do it? And if not, why are they going to do it? It seems like- Correct ... deceptively simple. Am I missing something?
Brooke Greening: You're not, and this is all the way across the board. So it's not just in your sales conversations, it's in your emails.
I was writing to this multi-billion dollar company, and we were working through timeframes and proposals and all of that, and they're like, "Hey, I have to talk to my... We have to talk to our board, we have to do this," yada, yada, yada. And I, I did the exact same thing and I was like, "Okay, that makes sense. When are you gonna be talking to them?"
This is the day they're talking to them. "Okay, so then does Thursday make sense for us to be able to meet? Is that gonna give you guys enough time to be able to review it, and then for us to have a decent conversation about it?" And the answer was, "No, actually Friday is going to be better." And so then we set it up for Friday.
People think, "Oh, no, no, no, that's too simple. I'm talking to these really highfalutin people." No, like simplicity wins no matter where you're at, and so it is that simple. I know there's boards, I know there's other things going on. We'll talk about that later. But when you are talking to the decision-maker, it needs to be that simple.
Scott Greening: All right. So I know that a common question or objection that sometimes your clients, when you get to this point and you're teaching them and they're like, "You can't really know the answer to that question," or like, "My customer doesn't even know at the end of the call if they're going to do it or not."
Like, how do we handle that?
Brooke Greening: Yeah. No, I love that, and it is a very, very good thing. Because when they're saying, "I'm not sure," or, "Now what?" It's really important because now we know, okay, so instead of pretending this process is moving forward, we know it's not. And now we're gonna go back and we're gonna start figuring out, okay, how do we validate, clarify in advance to be able to move the conversation forward?
It's a dangerous game if you feel like we're moving forward and they are not. That's where frustration comes in, and it does not have to. When they are honest and they're saying, "Hey, I'm not sure," or, "I don't know," then we can have an actual conversation about it. It's not just trying to trick them to agree to something, that's not the point.
I am truly trying to figure out, is this a good fit and can we help you? If we can, okay, we're gonna talk about what that next step looks like. If we can't, well, then let's give you some resources, and so many times people just think, "Okay, send me something," or, "I'm gonna think about it," is them moving forward, and they're not moving forward.
They're stuck.
Scott Greening: All right. So if we get to the end and our customer's maybe a little uncertain, or we're maybe a little uncertain about knowing it, that-
Brooke Greening: Mm-hmm
Scott Greening: ... that doesn't mean it's a failure automatically. But if we sort of leave it in this uncertain- ... that's where the like, "Oops, we missed it on the, on that sales call."
Brooke Greening: Yeah. You need to know why they're stuck rather than pretending that we're moving forward. That is where a lot of sales, this sounds very dramatic, but that- that's where they die. Like, everybody's thinking, "Okay, yep, they're good. We're moving forward." And then they get frustrated, and then they say, "Okay, it's the economy," or then they say, "Our competitor is doing this."
And those very well may be true, but there is also the reality they were probably telling you, "I'm not ready to move forward yet," and we read it wrong.
Scott Greening: I think sometimes we're maybe so nervous or maybe we're so eager or optimistic that we're having a sale, that we had these nice, good conversations, that we- we leave it without actually being sure.
And then we- we go back and either literally, as you sometimes listen to people's sales calls, or in our mind we think- ... "Oh, wait, maybe I didn't nail that down as much as I thought."
Brooke Greening: Yeah, exactly. That's exactly it. And it, this is actually a easy thing that you can fix, which is great. You can turn it around pretty quickly. But it is the one thing where people can get stuck, both you and your potential client. But you need, you need to know those two questions. If you don't, then that is when things kind of go into a, around and around in a circle.
Scott Greening: All right. So let's, let's put that example that you gave before through this second question test. And you're, you're talking with this business owner, this business leader, and you're sending a proposal on Tuesday. You're gonna say- Mm-hmm ... "Hey, you're gonna meet with your partner on Wednesday, then Thursday at 2:00," I think it was, uh- Yeah
"we'll reconnect and see if you're ready to move forward." So how do we know are they going to do it or not?
Brooke Greening: Well, at that point they would say yes or no. ' Cause you're actually giving them a time for them to do that. When we say, "I'm gonna follow up next week," that's really easy for someone to say yes to.
When you say, "Hey, is 3:00 a good time? Is that gonna give you guys enough time to be able to discuss it so we can have a conversation?" They are going to give you a yes or a no. You're not going to be wondering at that point. And in a lot of situations, they may say, "Hey, that's not great. In reality, I don't think that's gonna give me enough time.
But probably Friday or Monday would be better." And then we are able to nail that time down. But if you just left it as, "Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna touch base with you next week," they say okay, already knowing, eh, maybe we'll talk to them, maybe we won't. And they're not being manipulative. They're not trying to be deceptive.
It's just the reality of business and our, our human life.
Scott Greening: Yeah, and I think if, I mean, besides just getting on the same page about scheduling, and maybe they need a day or two extra, I think if they- Mm-hmm ... if you get and you push and you say, "Hey, does that work for you?" And they're like, "Well, actually," and then they, they say, "Well, I'm getting other bids, and I'm get-," then you know, oh, we're at- Right
a different part in the buying cycle than what I thought we were. Yes. And so that's sort of the, like, the if not, why, and- Mm-hmm ... and that. And so maybe you can address that on the same conversation, or maybe you need to s- to schedule another conversation in the future
Brooke Greening: Oh, and you can definitely start addressing it because then we go back to, okay, then we're gonna validate what they're saying, clarify in advance to see what makes sense.
So many times, if we would just give people enough space and give them a clear enough question that they can answer honestly, you would be surprised how fast that would either turn things around and the sale would move forward faster, or you would actually start to understand they're saying no. Like, I don't think we're gonna necessarily move forward right now.
And those are things that you need to know. It's not necessarily fun to know those things, but you need to know them in order to be, in order to serve them, in order to know, okay, what are the next steps with them, in order to be able to, to move on if it's not a good fit. But we don't do that, and it's just if we leave it vague, then we just keep chasing all of these things that we could have known in one conversation.
This is either going to move forward right now, or it is not.
Scott Greening: All right. So what are some of the, like, common wobbles, the things that people get wrong when they're trying to do this?
Brooke Greening: All right. So the first one is we confuse sending a proposal with having a plan. So some of you on who are listening to this podcast are dealing with proposals, others are not, but I can tell you almost everyone that I've ever worked with that does send proposals, this is where things can get dicey.
Because they send it, and they don't have a plan necessarily. They're just like, "Okay, I'm gonna send you a proposal, and I'll follow up with you next week." I strongly encourage, if it is at all possible, do not send a proposal without having that date set in regards to when to review it. You send less proposals, but you will make more sales.
Don't confuse I'm sending a proposal with we're moving things forward and we have a plan. It is not.
Scott Greening: Yeah, and I think sometimes people get confused on that. You're a StoryBrand certified guide, and so part of that framework is that you have a simple three-step plan in that, and so they think because that's in the proposal, I have a plan.
But you, there's, that's not what you're talking about, right?
Brooke Greening: No, I'm not, and I just want to encourage, usually when we're sending proposals, those are higher ticket, those are higher ticket sales, those are higher ticket problems that you're solving. And so we don't want our proposal trying to do the selling for us.
The proposal is reviewing what we've said, and we want to be in the room, to be having those conversations and talking about those things. That's where it gets confusing, where people are literally hoping the proposal is going to make the sale for them, and it won't, because you need, you're going to be a part of it, and you need to be able to have that set in place.
Scott Greening: All right. So what's the second, second wobble?
Brooke Greening: So the second wobble is assuming the customer knows your process. We think they know it. We think, "Okay, well, I do this all the time, so they must know what's going on." They literally don't know. They don't know, okay, do we have one more call? Or how is the proposal review going?
What happens with the contract? What goes on with the onboarding? Whatever it is that you're doing, they do not know your process, and when we start assuming they know the different steps that need to happen, that's when we get in trouble.
Scott Greening: Yeah. I think you were talking with a potential client recently, and w- you were very clear.
Like, "Hey, we can, we're gonna send the contract. We need you to sign it, and then when you sign it, we'll send you the first invoice. And then both of those things need to happen before our first meeting that's gonna happen sometime this week, I think." and you set up the meeting for this week, but it- which is a pro trick there.
You want- ... to get all these things done. And that was just funny, 'cause I overheard, and the lady was like, "I never signed c- like, my landlord's getting on me to sign a lease that I've been not doing for a while." But what happened? She signed, and she paid- ... and she's going to have the meeting with you. So she knew the process.
We just wanna be
Brooke Greening: able... Yeah. We just wanna give clear directions and make it really easy for them. There is a lot of things that are going on when c- customers are choosing to work with us. They're choosing to invest, usually a good amount of money. They're choosing time. They're choosing us over other people that they could be working with.
There's a lot of risk involved when they start working with us, and we wanna be able to help alleviate that and make it as smooth as possible. So that's what you wanna do. And if you assume they know the steps, they don't. And if they don't know the steps, they just won't move forward, and then that's why you're waiting for a long time.
Scott Greening: Yep. Then number three, what's the third thing that you've got on ways that we could maybe not quite get there?
Brooke Greening: It's when you, you just don't even ask for the objections, you don't ask for what's preventing them from moving forward. You just don't even ask. And that is a big wobble, because we need to know.
So many times if we're like, "Okay, just send me something," that doesn't mean I'm ready to move forward. We need to ask them, like, "What questions or concerns do you have before we move forward?" And if you're telling them what those steps of moving forward mean, that doesn't mean they're just gonna get some random proposal in their email.
You have to ask them what's preventing them from moving forward. If you don't, it's, you're gonna be lost and it's gonna be really hard. And people are very gracious and they will tell you. You don't have to be a jerk about it. We've talked about that plenty of times. You just have to, you just have to take a deep breath and ask what's, just what's happening, what's stopping them from being able to move forward.
Yeah.
Scott Greening: That's it. And then the last one, hopefully is obvious at this point, but what's the last wobble that sometimes shows up?
Brooke Greening: Oh, man. Leaving the date vague. Sometime next week, after vacation, when things slow down. When things slow down. If I say that to anyone who I am thinking about buying from, the answer is no, because things will never-
slow down in our house. And that is the same with other business owners. Those are not exact dates. And we need to be sensitive to what they're saying, we're not gonna be a jerk about it, but we're not going to just end with that. We're gonna do the best we can to be able to get an actual date, not just when things slow down.
Scott Greening: All right. Y- you've given us a couple of very specific questions, so, uh, I, again, it's probably not going to be a surprise where we're headed with this, but what should people try on their calls?
Brooke Greening: All right. So next conversation you have, you have to have these two questions. One, does my potential client know exactly what to do to move forward with me?
Date and time. They need to know the action. And then two, do I know if they're going to do it? If so, when? And if not, why? So I want you to do two things. One, try to do this in your next sales conversation. But two, listen to the conversation you've had before you started listening to this podcast and see, was it that clear when you were at the end of your sales conversation?
Scott Greening: All right, everyone. You have made it to the end or towards the end of our service sales framework overview. Thanks for sticking with us. We've been doing this, this is our 21st episode on this framework, and my guess is that if you've been along with us, even if you jumped in halfway, you probably realize there's a couple of places, one or two, where your sales conversations could be stronger.
Maybe it's uncovering the real problem or handling objections. Maybe, as we've talked about today, it's ending your calls with clear next step. And wherever you're stuck at, you don't have to have it all figured out on your own. Brooke, one of her great strengths and things that she loves to do is helping people like you, business owners, salespeople, have sales conversations that feel natural, that build trust, and lead to more confident decisions.
And not just decisions, lead to more sales. And so if you'd like to talk with her about your sales process and see if her coaching is a good fit, we encourage you to head over to buildingmomentum.info/meet. I'll give that to you one more time, buildingmomentum.info/meet. And you can pick a time that works for you, and then you'll be able to have a conversation with Brooke about your business, about your sales process, and something that might help you move forward.
Brooke Greening: Yeah. You don't have to become a different kind of salesperson to make more sales. Sometimes a few intentional changes can completely change the conversation you're having, and I'm really good at helping people to do that. So schedule a call, and can't wait to get started.
Scott Greening: All right. Brooke, we, we've delivered on our promise to work through the, the service sales framework.
I think we're gonna have a recap episode that's coming up, and the, the great thing is, like, the, the whole thing is designed to help people have sales conversations that feel more natural and they lead to, to better decisions. What would you kind of leave people with as we wrap up this explain next steps, the final part of the framework?
Brooke Greening: Yeah. A good sales conversation doesn't end when the meeting is over. It ends when both people know exactly what to do next. Because clarity isn't just good for you, it's one of the best ways you can serve your customers, and that will result in more sales
Scott Greening: Hey, if you found value in today's episode, if you appreciate Brooke's advice and these podcasts, we encourage you to like and subscribe, to follow along, whatever the platform of, that you connect with us on does.
We'd love to hear from you, to leave a review. You can find all of the links for the podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, on our podcast page on our website, which is buildingmomentum.info/matcha. And you can also leave a question there if you would like something to be addressed on a future episode, and we'll see if we can work that in.
But let us know how you're processing it and that you like and appreciate it by liking and subscribing and following along. Until next time, we hope you make some great sales.
Brooke Greening: Bye-bye.
