Why Great Sales Calls Still Don’t Convert
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Brooke Greening: If your clients are giving you vague answers, it's probably not because they're bad communicators, it's because your questions aren't helping them go deeper.
But remember, if you get the problem wrong, everything falls apart. So if you fix the very first thing that they tell you, you've completely missed the boat. You've missed it entirely.
There's three. So we call th- this the comfort zone exit, and this is where they start hinting at something deeper, and you move on. 'Cause it either feels awkward or you don't know exactly how to do that, or you've just kind of missed it.
I know I've said it six times, but this literally makes or breaks the sale, hands down.
So it doesn't have to be like this massive switch, but if we're just staying surface level, or we're just trying to get through questions, I am telling you, that is why you're losing sales.
Scott Greening: Hello, welcome to another episode of Sippin' Matcha and Helping You Make More Sales. I'm Scott, your host, and we'll be bringing Brooke Greening, our resident sales trainer, in so that you can, while you enjoy your matcha break or coffee break, get some sales advice that will move you forward in making more sales and helping to value your customers.
I know we're excited today, Brooke, about something that's happening. And that is- Yes ... the pipeline construction- ... that has been going on outside of our house seems to be getting cleaned up. So the last few- Yes ... recording sessions we've had our production quality assistance- ... AI tools, all the things, have been working overtime to get rid of the construction sounds.
Brooke Greening: Yes. And so here's a fun note as well. We thought it was, construction s- probably like it starts around 6:00 in the morning till 5:00 at night, like it would stop at 5:00, and it's literally, you can see it from our house. So it's the road and it's right on the other side. And so it is literally in our window, it's directly into Tora's window.
And but we found out a new special surprise, that they also work on Saturdays at 6:00 in the morning. So for the last three weeks, we have been dealing with construction all day, every day. They're doing a great job. I'm glad that they're fixing what they need to, but we are very, very thankful that they are starting to lift the roadblocks and are going to go away.
Scott Greening: Yes. So we're looking forward to that. We're looking forward to-
Brooke Greening: Bye-bye. ...
Scott Greening: the traffic going back to normal and all the things. Yes. That's a little bit of our woes and, and- ... problems in life, but we've actually been talking about- Personal. That's right. We've been talking about recognizing problems in sales conversations.
Yes. See what I did there? A little transition.
Brooke Greening: Nice.
Scott Greening: Nice. Yep. And we're, this idea that when we're recognizing problems, we're discovering people's true buying motivations- Yeah ... And doing that. And last time we talked about what that is, why it's important. This time we're going into how people typically do that and maybe some of the common mistakes that you see.
I should just say remember be a normal human, right? So sometimes people hear "I gotta find this deeper issue," or whatever, and they dive right in and go crazy- Right ... with really deep questions right away. Like-
Brooke Greening: Don't do that ...
Scott Greening: you gotta ask a surface level question to start with and then, like- Yeah
go from there. You can't just d- dive into the deep end. Yeah Other than that, what are some common problems that people have or that as you interact with your clients you see all the time?
Brooke Greening: Yeah. So there are three things that I see on a regular basis when we start talking about understanding the problem, and like we talked about before, if we get the problem wrong, everything falls apart.
So once again, just like Scott said, this is not where we just we're telling you dive deep immediately. That is awkward. That doesn't normally happen, so we want to be aware of some of the pitfalls that can come into play. So the first one is what I call the checklist interrogation. So that's like literally where you start asking them questions like, "Okay, how many leads?
What's your revenue? What's your close rate?" And it starts to feel like data collection and not discovery. I want to say, is this information important? Yes, but if the only reason we're asking that is so we can figure out what's going on, we've missed it, and we're beginning to switch it, and it needs to be about them and their problems.
So we cannot just land on the checklist interrogation.
Scott Greening: Yeah, and I think sometimes people get confused, and they think, "Oh, I'm doing a good job because I'm asking more questions," and they're really just asking the same question in different ways, and they're not really getting to the motivations behind it.
Mm-hmm. They're just getting more details about that first question, Yeah ... which doesn't help them a lot. And then I think another thing is sometimes it results in you're asking questions that are probably work that needs to be done after they've agreed to work with you. It's not necessarily part of the buying decision at the front end.
Brooke Greening: I do, I would say that, but I would push back a little bit 'cause when I'm working with my clients, they're like, "Brooke, I have to know this information in regard, in regards to knowing how to set the proposal," all of that. So I am not, I'm not arguing that. I am just saying be careful because in this moment we're trying to understand what's driving and motivating them, not the surface problems that we're going to be fixing.
Is it bad to have some of these questions? No. Is it bad to pretty much have this be your whole discovery process and then this is how you build out everything else? Yes. So they're not bad, but we cannot land here. There has to be other questions 'cause this is not gonna tell us what's really driving and motivating them.
Scott Greening: Good. Oh, it's good to get coaching. No I ask that 'cause I think that people struggle to understand what's the difference, so it, that's helpful to- Yeah ... to know. So the first one is like the checklist. working through what's the next one? So
Brooke Greening: the next one is the fix it jump.
So that's when they say, "Hey, we need more leads." And then I could respond and be like, "Oh, well, hey, you should join my master class, and I do a sales lab, and this is what we do, and it's for six weeks, and I help you do this, and there's a guarantee that we'll double your revenue, or you can keep going." And I'm just trying to fix it.
All of the things that I have said are true, but that's not what's actually happening. We're trying to fix it too fast, and that's what happens. You ask one question, they share a problem, and then you fix it mode, and that is not a good discovery process either. 'Cause at that point, you have completely skipped the problem entirely.
And you may not think that, 'cause you're like, "No, they told me that's the problem." But remember, if you get the problem wrong, everything falls apart. So if you fix the very first thing that they tell you, you've completely missed the boat. You've missed it entirely.
Scott Greening: Yeah, and I think this idea of leading, of helping people understand where they're at, y- sometimes you're even helping people put words to things that they're not even sure how to do it, and if you jump in with solutions right away you miss that opportunity.
And so- Yeah ... And
Brooke Greening: I hear that. So when clie- so people will push back, and they'll be like, "No, no, no, no, no, it was a great conversation. They told me what was wrong, and I told them how I could fix it." And that's when people get frustrated, 'cause they're like, "That was a great conversation," and then they end up getting ghosted, or the sale doesn't happen.
And I am telling you, one of the main reasons that is happening is because we fixed it too soon. We tried to fix that surface level problem instead of what was driving and motivating them, and that's when you can feel like, "We had a great conversation. We had a great connection. They told me a problem. I told them how I could fix it.
I know I could fix it," and then we're surprised when they don't buy.
Scott Greening: Yeah, I think it's that motivating decision, right? So- ... the problem that I start with, if that's not really the motivating thing okay, that was helpful. But- Yeah ... that's not really what's bothering me, and so that may result in not leading to action.
Okay. So we've got- Yeah ... two of them. I think you said there was three. What's the third
Brooke Greening: one? There's three. So we call th- this the comfort zone exit, and this is where they start hinting at something deeper, and you move on. 'Cause it either feels awkward or you don't know exactly how to do that, or you've just kind of missed it.
You didn't see the signal, you didn't hear what it was. And so they started opening the door to do something a little bit deeper, but then you just moved on. And I see this on a regular basis, 'cause one of the things that I do with my clients is they give me their calls. And so I'm listening to them, and I'm helping them think through the service framework and how to be able to apply it, and I hear this all the time, where I heard a problem.
It... They, like they just opened the door. It was one sentence or two sentences more. Maybe one was like, "Yeah we worked with someone the last time, and it didn't go well," and they didn't even go there. They just kept moving in regards to how they could be able to help. And that is what I'm telling you.
When they share another problem, we don't want to avoid that, and so that's that comfort zone exit. And when I point that out to them, and I say, "Hey, do you remember them saying this?" And I'll pull it back, and I'll say, "Hey, this is what they said. This is what you did instead." They're like, "Yeah, I heard it, but I just...
I didn't quite know what to say or where to go from there," and so they just kept moving forward. And so literally, people are probably starting to share with you problems, but we will take that comfort zone exit, 'cause we're not entirely sure what to say or what to do. But that is going to cost you sales
Scott Greening: I think that's the beauty of your s- framework, is it helps you keep things in their proper place, and you know what part of the conversation you're having with. And so sometimes if people are more used to scripts or different things, they're like if I go down that path, I'm not sure I know where to go next."
And- Yeah ... I think your framework helps people to do that. Which is maybe a good time to encourage people to think about taking Brooke's sales conversation assessment, where you can get a little bit of a sense on how you're doing with the seven different areas that are part of her service sales framework, and you can see which parts you're strong on and which parts maybe need a little bit of help.
So you can always access that at buildingmomentum.info/assessment, and take that in about three to seven minutes and get some good, helpful feedback. Brooke, as we keep going through this, the, we're... What I'm hearing and what I know that you do is you're not just asking questions that are on a list, although you do have lists that you give people, 'cause sometimes they're like, "I don't even know what to ask."
Right. But you're guiding the conversation- Yes ... through these questions. Yes. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
Brooke Greening: Sure. And one thing we talk about all the time is that you wanna be able to guide the conversation, but not talk the whole entire time, and that's when it comes up with questions.
And then how to be able to respond to their answers. And so when we are in this discovery process, truly in the problem process, there are two things that usually happen. Either we're gonna stay too shallow and we don't go any deeper, or we move too fast. Those are the two things that happen, and both of those are gonna keep you from understanding what actually matters.
So that's why you're guiding that conversation. You are trying not to have those two things happen. We don't want it to be too shallow, and we don't wanna rush through it too quickly. And so hopefully, as we've been talking and we're giving you these examples, you can start to ask yourself, "Okay, well, which one am I?
Am I surface level questions? Am I that data collector? Am I a quick fixer, or am I, like, avoiding the hard stuff?" Those are things you want to know, because you're in control of that, to be able to guide the conversation. It is so much easier if there's, like- 30 seconds of maybe a little bit of an awkward pause, and it's not even that awkward to give people space to be able to start sharing things.
But if you zoom past it or if it just stays shallow, that is literally when you feel like things are going well, 'cause you've had a good conversation, they're smiling, they're nodding. They may even say, "Send me a proposal." But if you get the problem wrong, you will not make the sale, or you will end up making a sale and it's not going to go well, because we still haven't truly understood what is bothering them.
And so then it's gonna start coming to play later as we start working with them. But more than likely, you just won't even get the sale. And you'll think, " Okay, maybe it was my competitor. Maybe they had a lower price." Maybe, and I'm not saying this to be mean or judgmental, but I am saying this to give you guys hope, a lot of times people don't make a sale is because we didn't lead them to.
And this helps to be able to do that, not in a manipulative way, not in a pushy way, but in a way so that they can make a real decision, and they can feel good about that decision, and you can feel good. I just want to encourage that. This is, I know I've said it six times, but this literally makes or breaks the sale, hands down.
Scott Greening: Yeah. Yeah. Your phrase is like- That's how you do it ... if you miss the problem you're gonna miss, miss the sale. If someone's thinking, thinking there and they're trying to evaluate they are, they're trying to ask questions and all of that, like, how could you help them evaluate the types of questions that they're asking in this discovery process?
Brooke Greening: Yeah. So one way you can ask is you can look at the questions you're going to say, and when I work with my clients, we call this our pre-call plan, and what good questions can we ask so we're not winging it? These are ways that we can be prepared. But as you're doing this, as you're going into your next call, just ask yourself, " Are my questions helping people think or just respond?"
If they're just responding, then we're not getting to that driving and motivating factor. We wanna ask questions that help them to think.
Scott Greening: Yeah, and probably a super practical way to evaluate that is if somebody's able to just give you the answers, tick them off, like right back to you- That may be, you may think, "Oh man, this is going great," but that may actually be a sign that you're not asking the right types of questions.
If somebody has to pause and say, "Oh, that's a really good question. Let me think about that for a second."
Brooke Greening: Yeah.
Scott Greening: Ooh, now you might be- And I- ... getting to the good stuff.
Brooke Greening: And I think about this time as people are listening to the podcast, some people might be like, "Dang it. She, she is ripping apart my whole sales strategy, my whole sales conversation."
That is not what I am trying to do. I am not trying to say you're doing absolutely everything wrong. You're not. But I am telling you, if we make these fixes, it will make a big difference in your sales. It'll make a big difference in how you show up in leading the sales conversation, and it will absolutely impact what's going on in your revenue.
So it doesn't have to be like this massive switch, but if we're just staying surface level, or we're just trying to get through questions, I am telling you, that is why you're losing sales.
Scott Greening: All right. So we've talked about some bad examples or some ways that, common mistakes that people...
Where are we headed next? What are we going to?
Brooke Greening: Yeah. So next week we get to talk about, okay, now you've shared maybe what not to do. What can we do instead? So we're gonna do that so it doesn't feel like an interrogation. Doesn't have to feel like you're at a counseling office, but we are gonna talk about how can we authentically and meaningfully understand what's driving and motivating people in every sales conversation, not just in one in five.
It's just how can we start implementing this in our sales process immediately, and I'm excited to be able to teach you guys that.
Scott Greening: Yeah. And you don't have to be a, become a therapist to do that. I was thinking it- you're- you are a counselor. You weren't trained by the CIA to interrogate foreign terrorists or something.
It's not a hard thing. It's not something where customers get off the call and they feel beat up or something like that. No. No. It's almost always very, very life-giving and very positive- Mm-hmm ... and that. So the way that you can keep engaged and to participate is to subscribe, to like, to turn on the notifications if you're watching on YouTube or whatever the case may be.
Let us know that you're there. We always appreciate it. Until then, we hope you enjoy your matcha and keep making sales.
Brooke Greening: Bye-bye.
